Is Diversity of Thinking Part of Your Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Strategy?

Transcript

Lachy Gray  00:08

The diversity is a topic that everybody is talking about. And in today's episode, we're talking about a specific area of diversity that doesn't get as much attention and that's thinking diversity, which is the idea that each of us brings a different perspective to work, and that's a good thing. So diversity of thought can boost productivity, innovation and customer and employee satisfaction. Joining us today to guide us through thinking diversity is Michael Morgan. Michael is the CEO of Hermanus, Asia, and he specializes in the application of whole brain thinking to business. Michael's career spans over 40 years, working across industries in Australia, New Zealand. And Southeast Asia. His diverse background covers agriculture, PR training and development and business improvement in both the northern and southern hemispheres. He's also written books on creative thinking, innovation and thinking diversity. So welcome, Michael.

01:08

Okay, thanks. Sorry.

Lachy Gray  01:12

So for those of us unfamiliar with Herman and whole brain thinking, Could you introduce the concept and approach, please?

Michael Morgan  01:20

Okay, yeah, they, I guess the concept actually is very, very simple. And I think that's part of its magic. One thing we know that's true in this world is different people think in different ways. You and I probably think differently. At school. You love maths and science, and I love history and social science and so forth and so on. And that's really the joy I think of life is that people think differently. Certainly the joy of relationships, where most of us are in a relationship where we think differently to our partner. What I guess the essence of what we call whole brain thinking is to be able to unlock that and understand it, both from an individual perspective, a team perspective, a work perspective, even an education perspective, and the way it came about was named Herman. He's long dead but he did his work in the 1960s and 70s was head of management development in General Electric, and GE is still known to be one of the most innovative companies in the world. And what GE wanted to do was to unlock the creative thinking of engineers. When you think of an engineer, most engineers are very good at logical, rational analytical thinking and solving a problem. They're not necessarily known for you know, creativity and reinventing the world. That's not to say they all don't do that, but needs work was to help G managers become more creative. And in doing so he I guess created this metaphoric model is framework for understanding the way people think. And that is the essence of what it is so that we teach individuals the model, we have a, what we call an assessment, the Herman brain dominance instrument that you can fill out, and it helps you understand the way you think. And whenever we use it, we give it to people and they open it, look at it, and 99% of the time people go oh my god, that explains it. So true. Yes. And by that explains it, the way you think influences everything. From what you did at school, the decisions you make the people you work with why some people don't know you why others don't. And yet, so that Aha, is pretty profound. So that in a nutshell, is what we do.

Karen Kirton  04:19

Excellent. And I was reading an article on the Herrmann blog about gender equity, diversity and thinking preferences that we'll make available with the show notes as well. And you know, it makes the case that demographics are one group of predictors of diverse thinking, but there are many others so so can you take us through the concept of thinking diversity?

Michael Morgan 05:06

Yes, I guess the research is a clear that the way we think is primarily due to two things. One is nature and one is nurture. So by nature, I mean, you know, the gift you got from your parents the genetic imprint, which does a lot of things for us, and it does lay down I guess the, the basic construct of the way you'd like to think that's the first reason the second reason why you think the way you do is nurture and nurture means experience. And that means from the moment you're born, the culture you're born into the demographic about whether you're in Australia or Pakistan or Brazil, or wherever it is, has a huge impact on who you are, and also on your thinking. So yes, diversity obviously is terrific in every measure of diversity, you know, race, sex, creed, color, all sorts of things. However, if all those different, diverse people share the same life experience then perhaps they're not as diverse as you think they are, in the way they think. So that's the the essence here. So you know, diversity and inclusion. Diversity doesn't necessarily as we know, give you inclusion. And diversity will not necessarily give you diversity of thought, unless, you know, there is inclusion. And unless I guess you unlock that, the way people think.

Lachy Gray  06:35

yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? I I personally, don't hear people talking so much about diversity of thought. It's more so about gender culture. Yes. Why do you think that is?

Michael Morgan  06:52

Oh. It's interesting. I mean, one answer is that a lot of people don't think about the way they think. And we know that that heavens above you don't have to look at various aspects of life. To know that people aren't thinking very much. Yeah. So it is it is hidden. But that's also I guess what we're finding is its power is that so many other measures of diversity are what we call value. Laden as soon as you hear that somebody comes from here, or they do that, or, you know, they're from this ethnic background or whatever. Oh, dear. There's all sorts of judgments and stuff come along. What led them and did when he created the whole brain model in particular, the hpdi was trying create a framework where there is no judgement there is no good bad, right or wrong, right? So logic is as good as intuition. It's different, but it's just as good. So what we're finding is a lot of organizations, I guess, grabbing diversity of thought as a way to unlock the greater world of diversity, because it's not value laden. And that's, that's a real plus for it. It's just different and as I say, in the right situation, intuition can be stunning, and vice versa.

Lachy Gray  08:31

That's really interesting. I'm curious what whole brain thinking or diversity in thinking looks like in the workplace. So what are some signs that we can look for in a team that has diversity and thinking?

Michael Morgan  08:46

Okay, it's interesting, I think, one answer to that would be increased productivity. And I say that because there's a lot of research out there about diverse teams as opposed to what we call homogeneous teams. And you would know that, you know, if you get a room full of people who think the same, then they're going to think the same. They're going to come to conclusions quickly. They're not going to be rigorous in their thinking, nobody's going to stand up and say, Hang on, what about this, although they might appear to be more efficient, and make decisions faster, but whatever. It is, they're doing the problem solving decision making process won't be as rigorous. So one of the signs and say of, I guess, thinking in teams is its conflict, this difference of opinion. So it might take longer to get a resolution because you and I are at each other's throats. However, the outcome is, is much better. One of our clients came up with a concept of diverse by design, they call it and what they do is whenever they form a team, they use the HPI to measure people's thinking diversity and they make sure they have all the bases covered. So it's diverse by design. Then what they do with those teams, is they give them organizational problems to focus on and solve. And they're, they're having a phenomenal hit rate. Because again, you know, if you get I mean, I was gonna say six engineers, but I won't pick on them again. It's not going to be people together. They're all going to come up with the same solution.

Lachy Gray  10:54

Because HR

10:58

Michael Morgan Yes, I remember years ago in the early days of Microsoft and Bill Gates said apparently whenever they get a team together to design a computer or whatever, they get half a dozen kids as well. Because not only are the kids, the users but they think differently. Yeah, that's what we want. So that's, that's all it is. It is it is so simple. However, it can be difficult because, you know, if you're a team leader, what sort of team do you want? Do you want a team that I don't know is like riding a bucking bronco and, you know, wears you out every time we get him together? Or a team that probably you want. You want somewhere in the middle? Yeah, because too much diversity, which isn't managed which isn't controlled, obviously. doesn't deliver anything either. Yeah, so it's, it's a compromise, but knowing, I guess, and that's the real power. I think of what we have the whole brain model is it describes to say that the four basic ways of thinking right and everybody is a blend of those four, right? To some degree or another, and it just helps individuals I guess, look at what's happening, whatever it is a family dinner party, you know, a team at work, even a cooking show, you can use the whole brain model to look at what's happening and go, Ah, now I understand the thinking behind it. Now it's beginning to make sense. So cooking shows, I don't know whether you and others watch cooking shows, but they're fabulous. Some people weigh everything. It's two grams, it's three ounces, and it's very precise. Other people have to follow the recipe and can't deviate other people and I was thinking Nigella Lawson, you know, oozes sensuality when she talks about chocolate. And then there's, you know, somebody like Gordon Ramsay, who could probably never cook the same meal twice because he just forgot what he's done. So the whole brain model helps you when you know the model helps you look at those things. Ah, now I understand what's happening. Now I can contribute. Now I can get that such power.

Karen Kirton  13:42

Yeah, you've just had to reflect on a few things. Firstly, my husband has to have a recipe which drives me crazy and I never do which drives him nuts. So So that's the first thing but you know also when you're talking about diversity in teams, so I first heard my hpdi data which is what's the name of the assessment is called for whole brain thinking, I think was around 2002. It was early 2000s. And somebody in my team was pretty much the opposite of me. And it just made us laugh because we just had that moment of Okay, now we are we actually learned a lot from each other. Once we knew this is my thinking, this is your thinking. And this is what we can both bring to the table without being frustrated with each other either. So I found that really powerful. And you know, personally, I've redone the assessment a couple of times over that period, I currently debrief maybe 50 people a year. And you know, what I'm always fascinated with is when you have a team who were engineers or technicians or accountants, and you know, they had that real task process focus generally, versus those in advertising or marketing or the art to have that credit, creative and people focus and, you know, the industry that we work in and the jobs that we do can be so driven by our thinking preferences, because it impacts on what we pay attention to what we enjoy. So my question is, how do we stretch ourselves into other areas so that we can bring in more of that thinking diversity into our teams?

15:23

Michael Morgan Okay, I guess like so many things. It doesn't happen overnight, I guess. So you got to work at it. But the best way I think though, to describe the situation is if you just take a minute now without without thinking and just fold your arms, fold their arms and just sit there. Now what I'd like you to do is to fold your arms the other way.

15:59

Michael Morgan Now, you can follow them back the first way. So what happened during that process? When I asked you to fold your arms, most people you don't need to think it's just automatic. When I say fold your arms the other way.

Karen Kirton  16:17

Yeah, I've seen people that actually struggle to do that. At all, I sit there I just left over right or is it right over left or whatever?

16:27

Michael Morgan  confusion reigns, you're gonna think. And when you eventually do it, it feels Kunia and all you want to do now is go back. So thinking is exactly the same. We took a we talk about preference and avoidance. So one of the other things about the hpdi in the whole brain model is it's not a measure of competence. It's a measure of preference. I prefer to think this way. I can see another way and I'm pretty good at it. But it just doesn't turn me on so I can actually fold my arms both ways. I just prefer to do it this way. So it's its preference. Now, like folding your arms. Your question about I guess, how can you develop preference in other areas? Another metaphor we use is it's a bit like an elastic band that we all you know, when you're not stretching and elastic band, it has its natural shape. So we all have our natural shape. How can you stretch the elastic band, you know, in one way or another and obviously, the more you stretch, the greater the tension. So I guess the first thing about changing your preference or increasing your thinking agility, as we call it, is to be aware of your current thinking. Yes, I like to follow my arms that way, okay. I don't that way but no, I understand that. So the awareness through what we use the completing the hpdi when people get that awareness, that original Aha, and they go okay, now I understand why I became an engineer why selected maths. That's the first thing. The second thing is using the whole brain model to what we call I guess, mapping the task. So what am I trying to do? I'm trying to design a marketing campaign. I'm trying to organize a dinner party I'm trying to paint a picture whatever it is, what is the task or what is the task demanding of me? Because different tasks demand different things, you know, filling out an Excel spreadsheet is very different to coloring in. So the second thing is to know what you're trying to do, and the demands that are going to be placed on you. Now, we experienced that. The, I guess, a good example I often have is, you know, when you do a corporate off site to do a one day strategic planning meeting or whatever, and at lunchtime, everybody sits around and says, Well, this morning was a waste of time, wasn't it? All that talk about the future, whatever else? That's a good example of where people are being pushed into their area you like have less preference without knowing what's happening. The second thing if you want to change, as I say is to map the task to know where you got to go, and what are the demands are gonna be placed on you. The third then is, I guess, there are lots of tools and techniques you can use to become more logical or to become more intuitive or whatever. One week or tactic is to find a friend. Yeah, so can your I guess you and your husband can turn on a pretty good dinner party? Yeah. As you get it together and what one forgets the other and you learn from each other. And probably you're now you're aware that there's actually some value in recipes. You won't always stick to them, but

Karen Kirton  20:36

every so often. Thank you, I'll give you baking, baking is important to have a recipe.

20:45

Michael Morgan Yes. So again, you know, it's learning to fold your arms, getting used to it, drying it, talking to other people, and slowly making it happen. One way that I guess a lot of our clients do it as well. And it sounds a funny word, but it's by what we call mandating it by making it explicit by the team leader saying, this is the way we're going to operate from now on and during a meeting to say I really excel example. Sometimes, Herman we struggle a bit with implementation, you know, leaving message, leaving meetings, with clear accountabilities and everything else. So we often say Okay, the last 15 minutes of this meeting, we're going to what we say, go into the green quadrant, which is about who's going to do what by when we know when any more new ideas go on. So you actually define the thinking that you want at certain stages, then a good manager will start asking involving and including people in their process. So diversity and inclusion. Obviously then gives you that engagement. Yeah, they, I guess they coming all the way back but the magic I think of it, that makes it easy, is the whole brain model is a very simple concept that people can get, and I say 99% of people who fill out their hpdi as they look at the results, and they go so that explains it hence why whatever that that why is like why they pick the career. You know why they don't get on with John why they fell in love with Fiona or whatever it is.

Lachy Gray  22:55

That's really interesting. I like the idea of at the end of the meeting. Because it labels I guess, doesn't it take everyone's speaking the same language? Very clear what you expected, what you're expecting, and also what's expected of you, which I think helps a lot. That context is often missing in the work. Yes,

23:15

yeah. Absolutely. And every meeting, you know, will have an agenda. So what we say is I guess, you know, you have the agenda, and highlight the thinking required for that issue. So we're not only going to talk about this marketing campaign, we're going to generate ideas and we want some creative thinking during that process. So everybody knows what's expected on.

Lachy Gray  23:45

Yeah. Just taking a step back for a moment, and as we touched on before, you know, society's attitudes towards diversity in the workplace have changed a lot over the past few decades. So I'm just curious how your thinking in diversity and inclusion has changed throughout your time at Herman.

24:09

Michael Morgan Oh, interesting question. I guess I mean, I met met him in the early 1980s When he was beginning to retire, I guess, heading for retirement, and I was just starting. And to be honest, I don't think diversity was on anybody's horizon then. So one answer to your question is, you know, it's had a huge impact because it's as it's come along. It's really for us, I guess, the two or three years before COVID. It really gathered momentum. Were certainly here in Australia. And we were doing a lot of work in New Zealand around working with boards, which was an interesting area, because of the lack of diversity of any sort of diversity in many boards and you know, as the, I guess, the responsibility that boards have was becoming not more apparent but was, I guess, becoming a bigger, bigger issue. Again, what we found was people wanted an easier I know that's an easier way into the diversity discussion. The Best Value Line less explosive away. And the fact that you think differently to me was, I guess the way in a way a lot of organizations did it and are doing Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that would be, to me the change, and now people clearly understand diversity, equity, inclusion, engagement. They are absolutely one in the same and you've got to embrace the hall. And the rewards for embracing them all. are phenomenal. Yeah,

Karen Kirton  26:20

yeah. And I think one part of Team diversity which always becomes interesting when people look at their team profiles, as well as extraversion and introversion within the teams and how people put themselves on that spectrum. So, you know, what do you think that leaders can or should do to recognize and accommodate for differences in introversion and extraversion?

26:42

Michael Morgan Yeah, I agree with that. I think one of the it's a question Yeah, in the hpdi, where you get a measure, say of your introvert extrovert, where it's particularly powerful we're finding is we're team leaders. You know, whoever's working with the team and they're trying to involve and engage everybody, you know, understanding that you can have two people whose thinking is supposedly similar yet you know, if I'm more extroverted, you're more introverted. They're going to have to work harder, I guess, to involve and engage the, the introverted person, which again, I guess a lot of the work we're doing at the moment is around the whole issue of trust, and psychological safety and in that area, and involving the client people who will have as much if not more to contribute than the good and the noisy ones. So yes, that's one measure within the hpdi but it's a pretty important one. And I think, during COVID know when the world went virtual and remote, it actually became more important because you can have nodding heads on the Zoom screen. You know, but drawing them out and understanding why perhaps they were a bit quieter, absolutely critical.

Karen Kirton  28:20

For sure, it's, it's so different with so when I was reminded of that yesterday because I ran a workshop face to face which is still a little bit of a novelty to be honest. And just having like five groups around the room being able to hit up you know, just quietly overhear everything people were saying, it's so different to you know, breakout rooms on Zoom, where you've got to like launch yourself into the and everyone's like, Oh, hey, you ah, and yeah, quieter people can get left behind when you have to speak one at a time. Yeah.

Lachy Gray  28:55

It's been fantastic. Hearing your, your knowledge and experience. Thank you, Michael. Okay. terms of sort of recapping the key takeaways, I think for me, couple of things diverse by design. Are you like that? As you explained it, deliberately creating teams based on diversity of thought, I think that's something that we can all do. And being mindful that decisions we make are driven by how we think so it makes sense to understand how we think. And then thirdly, the example that you gave about defining the particular kind of thinking, preference or style, I guess in a meeting, for example, a very practical example of how this can be applied in the workplace. Karen, what are your takeaways from today's episode? Yeah,

Karen Kirton  29:45

I love that. You said one of the joys of life is thinking differently. I just read that. You know that if you say, Well, why is diversity important? Yeah, that that was a really lovely sentence which I wrote down. So I'm gonna use that. Thank you. And I think another one was the idea of that rubber band, so you know, yes, this is this is me, and that's okay. And there's no right or wrong to who I am. But I can stretch myself out and that tension happens as I stretch but that's, that's okay. I'm still a rubber band. So I really liked that. Thank you.

Lachy Gray  30:23

Michael, and anything else we've discussed will be over on our websites accommodate you and amplify hr.com Today, you just find the links to the podcast section. You receive value from this episode. We'd love it. If you could leave a rating or review over at Apple podcasts. And you can get in touch with Michael and Herman that's H E double R M A double n.com.au Or by email Michael M I C H. E l@herman.com.au.

Karen Kirton  30:56

Coming up in the next episode is our last for this season. We're going to do a roundup for 2022.

Lachy Gray  31:03

Yes, and that podcast episodes coming up in two weeks from now. So if you click the subscribe button, you will be notified when it's available. Any final thoughts, Karen?

Karen Kirton  31:12

All right. Just the other thing that Michael said that I wrote down was diversity plus equity plus inclusion equals engagement. I think that's another great way to sum it up. So thank you, Michael. Is there any final thoughts that you have for anyone listening today?

31:29

Michael Morgan No, no. So thanks for having me. And I guess the final thought is I I made this a lifetime ago. I was lucky enough to be in Pittsburgh when Ned Herman was giving a talk. And it blew me away. I just sat there going, Wow. I don't know why I'm here. What I'm doing I'm not mad after all. Yeah, and for me, it's been it's been a wonderful, I don't know. Yeah, way to help me through the whole of my life. So it's a very powerful tool.

Karen Kirton Absolutely.

Lachy Gray  32:07

Thanks so much for joining us, and we will see you next time on the Make it Work podcast.