How can we Best Design Offices to Cater for Hybrid Work, and for Wellbeing?

Transcript

Karen K  00:00

Okay, look it over to you.

Lachy Gray  00:03

Right, too. As the dust settles on the great remote working experiment that was the last few years of COVID businesses are faced with a new challenge. How to best serve their employees when they do come into the office and meeting person is something I suspect we'll be grappling with for years to come. This new reality raises many questions such as what's the purpose of an office in this new environment? And how can we best design offices to cater for hybrid work and for wellbeing?

For this episode, Karen and I dived into thedid some latest research and also spoke with 

 Joining us today is Christina Kim, founder of harmony architecture, and director of Mullins, Kim and Associates. Christina is an architect who specializes in designing human centric spaces. That boost performance connectivity and wellness. Welcome, Christina.

Christina Kim  00:56

Hi, Lachy, how are you?

Lachy Gray  00:59

Very well. Thank you. Are you k

We were keen to hear what changes Christina had have you seen over the past few years in how people are thinking about office space?

Christina Kim  01:09

Okay, so as we are all aware, they compete is the point where every and shifted our paradigm. So before COVID I see two different cases you know, running the business, the organization patiently waited. And one is just keep going with traditional way of refurbishment. 

And another case was that just a little, maybe 5% of corporate is the into, you know, really different way of, you know, saying with the visions and how they imply in the workplace. Design, but with a COVID we somehow break all those barriers between you know, thinking just physically but a more towards emotional and mental health into design article space for some at the end of day that you're spending so much money investing, to improve your environment and just doing a fishbowl refer one be really improving people's productivity, connectivity and wellness. So we have to think about life and work balance. And we have to think about our physical, mental, emotional and spiritual side about our bodies, how we are all working throughout the day. So all those things, how does that relate to architecture? And you know, people might raise the question, but that this way, architecture is really you know, the thinking about our people who is containing all our bodies that working inside of Office situation. So I should say COVID is good and bad, but for me, COVID is really breakthrough for thinking outside of box for design would ask.

Karen K  03:38

Yeah, and I've certainly seen a lot of organizations take employee wellness and productivity much more seriously since the pandemic and ust how do we, support our employees as human beings. I think we've all become hopefully a little bit more humanistic over the last two years.  Yeah, yes. So, you know, I'd love to know, in your experience, Christina, you know, how do you think that workplace design can impact on productivity? And wellness? 

I found a Forbes article from early 2019 talking about how office space impacts on wellness and it felt a little like reading something from a time capsule. Because it is amazing how much our workplac has changed since the pandemic https://www.forbes.com/sites/alankohll/2019/01/24/how-your-office-space-impacts-employee-wellbeing/?sh=1fbe6f6a64f3

For example,it said  93% of workers in the tech industry said they would stay longer at a company who would offer healthier workspace benefits, with options ranging from wellness rooms, company fitness benefits, sit-stands, healthy lunch options and ergonomic seating. I’m guessing now that would be 93% of tech workers want to work from home!

But the important points are unchanged which is that well thought through workplace design leads to better productivity not just through better wellness, but also through better collaboration with colleagues. 

LACHY - suggest you insert some stuff here about research

For sure. And increasingly employees are pushing employers to offer flexible working opportunities. A Microsoft survey in 2021 showed 55% of people looking for a new role said the work environment would factor in their decisions. Anecdotally I’d say it’s more than this, as people have become used to flexibile work routines that better balance remote and office work. 

As part of this analysis, I think there’s a huge opportunity to consider what the purpose of an office is and what can be best done in a physical office space. Is it collaboration, learning and building connection?

In Japan, Fujitsu asked these same questions and now offer three different spaces to match the nature of the work being done. 

• Hubs: designed for max collaboration with staff and customers, and serendipitous moments. 
• Satellites: which are spaces for coordination within and between teams on projects. And are a place for in person connection away from home. 
• Shared offices: are located all over Japan, usually need train stations or urban centres. They’re designed to be quiet spaces that are easy to get to, minimising commuting time. Productivity and learning are the main aims of the shared office.  

Karen K  07:15

I love that. I’m so interested to see how our work environment could change over the next few years!

I remember back in the day the workplace was one big space and then all the managers were in offices and all of us plebs were in these cubicles. It was not a very inspiring environment. 

I know that I personally feel better when I walk into a space that just just looks good, but it has the right kind of lighting and isn’t overly noisy, but, Christina I’ve also heard you speak about designing a space for different stages of your day and how you respond to your environment through those different stages. 

Christina Kim  04:11

Well, as I said, you know, the traditional way of design the architecture environment is always looking at the aesthetic thing, but we got to really look at beyond that. So we have to look at how our bodies working throughout the days, when I say bodies, that is not just our physical body. I'm talking about how we how we use our emotions that place from morning time to afternoon and it just changes all the time. And also mentally, you know, we talking about mental health all the time, and how is it working through, you know, experiencing our emotion. And what is really you know, fight to energy that we can help to create beautiful environment that we will bring all those potentials in every individual working in that space. So I'm talking about the holistic way. So I always talk about human centric ways. So we have to understand what humans made off. So for example, you know, how does the workspace relate how emotion Okay, so you might have to work you might wake up in the morning, if you're in a hybrid situation is exactly the same situation. You wake up in the morning you might have a different feeling to in the middle of night. Middle of day and so, we providing each different spaces, so that you can you know, to your emotions, you can really stress that you can do different activities because you can just sit on sported work all the time. So it's good to break up spaces, so that people can attend whenever they need different needs. They can go into different areas. So this way, I have created nine different so each emotions, we can break into maybe five different areas and in the morning could be different to a lunchtime, lunchtime could be different in the afternoon. And so it's always good to look at rather than providing one big place and just certified facing to you know, different so that they can attend.

8:41

Karen K  07:15

I remember back in the day the workplace was one big space and then all the managers were in offices and all of us plebs were in these cubicles. It was not a very inspiring environment. 

I know that I personally feel better when I walk into a space that just just looks good, but it has the right kind of lighting and isn’t overly noisy, but, Christina I’ve also heard you speak about designing a space for different stages of your day and how you respond to your environment through those different stages. 

and I like he said, You know, there's looking beyond those aesthetics. So it's actually really considering that whole person as you're coming into work each day and there's different stages of your day and and what you respond to in your environment as well.

Christina Kim  07:51

Yeah, also individual. Here's a different time. So giving that option.

Lachy Gray  08:05

And, Christina, I'm curious what's a what's a change that you've made to an office space to incorporate some of these principles?

Christina Kim  08:15

Um, I I think you know, again, traditional way of war, the way that architects that deal with that times has to be relocated and revised. And because, you know, I think just the designing good space is great, but the interaction with employees or employers during the process of designing could be really pushed, because they might say, but you know, they can realize that the building itself is hard to see it communicating with you, but when you have a process of you know, designing our concept, for example, just going through different interaction with employees through the desired state, and they can communicate with their space a little bit better. So, with my practice, it's not just starting with that, designing and finished with construction, but I always slipped in, you know, interaction with the employee to either we have a group sessions, or we have a vision board workshop that how they perceive, you know, the optimum space for their well being or connecting with other members. You know, bring in most of the potential that you can. So, I was actually self is not just a physical building. I see that as something that he can communicate with everyone day to day basis. So, this way, again, bringing emotional, mental or spiritual side is really important.

Lachy Gray  10:38

Yeah, for sure. And as people move back to more office based work, we’re asking what is the role of an office in a hybrid, or fully remote environment where you have either some or all of the staff working remotely?  

Christina Kim  10:56

is a big change, isn't it? So yeah, I've been talking to a lot of people and no one really wants to go back to Office. Again, when you work from home, and self, self flexible, and you can look after your physical body as well as your emotions, that mental needs that you can download more energy from sunlight and you can do all kinds of things that look after your body and also bring up your performance of productive but I guess, it comes back to connectivity in my chart. So how do you connect with you know, your coworkers? I mean, Zoom is great, but to me, you know, it's not as good as connecting face to face type of situation actually touching people with looking at each other in the eye to eye say. So, I guess, with this situation with a hybrid situation, you still need space in the office, but it's more like socializing type of space would be really important for some, they are gathering together to check in each other's or having meetings that so in that environment could be more casual and informal. So in my chat nine so on and there are a couple of other areas could be popping up in the situation that are more like a private stones. So you know, Pirate areas and things like that. And so more like deliberations or social activities that could be spread out the case.

Karen K  13:00

I was reading through some PWC research which says “the office of the future will be different… it will provide a place for those tasks that can’t be successfully done at home”. And that fundamentally changes the design of the office. 

For me, talking with different businesses over the last few years, many have seen hybrid work as an opportunity to reduce the footprint of their office and save money. But then if you are redesigning to include meeting rooms and collaboration spaces, then you find that may not reduce the office footprint as much as you like!

And the PWC report concludes that Selecting the ideal workplace model involves a set of compromises between flexibility and structure, real estate and culture. There’s no one-size-fits-all solution. 

https://www.pwc.com.au/important-problems/future-of-work-design-for-the-future/designing-a-hybrid-office.html

I think as you're talking about these things, like it makes sense to me, but, you know, talking with different businesses over the last few years, many have seen hybrid work as an opportunity to reduce the footprint of their office and save money. So what do you think like, is this actually an opportunity to not reduce our footprint and instead to redesign or is it both? Can we also reduce the lease costs while still redesigning, because collaboration spaces take a lot of space or either take a cubicle? Yeah, what do you

Christina Kim  13:35

you know, in my opinion, you still have to work, you know, doesn't matter what you do, you still get stress. You still get fear, you know, all kinds of emotion. But I think that this is a great opportunity to look at how we're gonna improve our workspace, not just towards the left side, right, but to bring in more rice that right and so more creativity, more playfulness, and engaging. Of course that creativity comes with a price that brain so when you look at right side brain they like to play, they like to be flexible. They like to be you know, interact with people and talking about something is passing your heart. And so why don't we redesign our office around that ID. So at the end is all up to organization. And, you know, some people buy like to reduce the half of the office space, and then have just a little space to gathering or collaboration type that is more like a peak one space, which contains everything. And people tend to go towards that bit more at the moment. And but something like this, that I I'm looking at some government projects, and they still like, traditional way of doing things, so they keep the premises sad. But if employees have flexibility, either they can go in or work from home. So there are two different you know, organizations the two different things.

Karen K  15:50

Yeah, and I think it's fair that traditional office is what we've always known, it's quite a mindset, leap to go from having a desk for everybody to actually moving away from that kind of model and say, well, here are different zones, Operation stations or you know, quiet spaces or creativity. Zones. Yeah, it takes a well researched business owner so that, you know, that that could be useful for us and yeah, I guess that goes into that whole idea of if you have so if you had an office and you're that government and you're sticking with that office, you know, are we are we sharing this Are we you know, hot desking what was the other one called the you know, you you work at a particular desk activity based working Yeah. Are you saying those sorts of things coming back or are they gone?

Christina Kim  16:53

Yeah. I think that they're still in. Yeah. And activity based work. quite popular at the moment. Yeah. And so at the moment, everyone's just on trial, they try all different things. And, you know, our consciousness all in different level. And, you know, some people still like to connect with other people and they can go in and they love that. And but a lot of us, we have so many different as in, I'm always talking about life in both balance, and, you know, then we ride a stay hybrid. into office every day, nine to five payments. So, I see it as a really positive thing. And if, even though COVID was offering things to go through, and it really changed our business holding that way. I think it's a good thing.

Lachy Gray  18:05

And how involved employees in this process that we're talking about,

Christina Kim  18:11

yeah, this is really important. Because at the moment, I'm talking to one of international companies who wants to look after their employees mental health for same reason, because, you know, they don't see each other but they still have their stress, stress stress level is hitting the roof and they don't know what to do with it. So they want me to do weekly sessions. So I think we have to look at bit more of their and I know, I'm an advocate and I design space, but you can just finish, draw the line there. Whether your accountant or a lawyer, or HR we always had to, you know, coordinate ourselves not just physically but emotionally and mentally. We have to expand our consciousness in that way. So when I do one on one sessions or weekly group sessions with these companies, and I always relate to workspace for example, I can your stress level is that high or down here or low? How would you manage that within your workspace? What you do, and you get up and walk around and or do you go out and make coffee? Or do you go to pi space and contemplate, so I keep a little bit of option like this. And so for them to think about how they actually recharge. So it just gives a bit more outside of box type of ideas about workspace design in that way, and they naturally think ik I'm feeling like this, then I think this, I think this thing, and so you just expanded paradigm a little bit more through through that type of group session.

Lachy Gray  20:40

It's interesting, isn't it? Because I think as a business owner, you like to have clarity and certainty. And it might feel to some business owners that this where we are right now is introducing a lot of uncertainty and this desire to have flexibility, engagement with employees. It's a lot of work, right? It's it's a big time investment, essentially financial as well. So how are you kind of approaching that side of it in your conversations?

Christina Kim  21:08

Well, I guess you know, each company that I looked into Trey, and the budget is that huge because, you know, there's something that you never thought about before. And that is extra things that you have to allocate for your company's budget. And but I guess, you know, there's another thing that we breaking our way of thinking from old white to new ways, and that, as you said, uncertainty comes into the formula and so when we are uncertain you know, everything could be the SAP on stable. And so I think I suck good way when you feel uncertain. You reach out to different resources and you start looking at something bit more than how you used to think. So all these are new skills coming into support all these different way for organizations. So there is no other choice, but you have to look at different areas. You know, just to make sure that your business is surviving, and your business is blooming. And your business can be stable.

Karen K  22:49

And, you know, if I'm a business owner listening to this, and I might just be thinking, Gosh, it's really overwhelming. I don't know where I'd even start to look at my office design. Do you think there are any quick wins that you know business owner could take that could help in terms of designing their workspace?

Christina Kim  23:10

Well, start we had to sayask your employee because they were they're the one that was you know, bringing it all the revenues, they are the one that whose strategic stakeholders and so I would say start with Do you know, quick survey of how how do they feel about a workspace is the one how do they feel about a workspace? What do they think they actually need to support the more where we add more connectivity and bring up the performance level. So start with that big survey will be quiz. And, you know, they will give you some kind of answers at the end of the survey. And from that point, and they know which direction

Karen K  24:23

Yeah, That's music to my ears because I always say always start with ATP ask the person it's so important designing an office space if you're not actually talking to the people that are going to be using it. Yeah, it's a very easy, quick thing to do as well. It is.

Lachy Gray  24:47

I guess. A challenge now as well as that we're thinking about designing spaces for the future. And last few years has changed so much. How we think about office space. Some business owners might be hesitant to then think about investing in a new office space is because it might change again. So the To what extent do you think these changes are going to do well by us for years to come?

Christina Kim  25:21

Ah, I think you're evolving. I want to use the word evolving. Because, you know, we are not the same as before COVID in our mind is eating and we want to look after ourselves. You know, as we come forth, so, you know, it's keep evolving. You even in business. I know, for business owners, it's just always questionable whether we're going to take this or that, but my advice is I'll just stay put for a while. And but always interact with the employee, get the question out and get the survey done, and train them and look after the you know, just give themselves group sessions and all those self development type of activities. Could be really good I Yeah.

Lachy Gray  26:37

For sure, I know I read one of your LinkedIn posts, that talks of the importance of Designing Spaces for learning, and I think you were right in context of the school. But I'm, I'm curious I mean, how do you design spaces for an optimal learning experience?

Christina Kim  26:58

Yeah. Again, I always thinking about right side brain. And so when people walk into the space they you know, rather than looking at everyday boring, table and chair type of situation, and I like people to open up the door and walk into wild space. That really stuck. At that moment. Your brain just brings up so much energy, you know, enthusiasm and passion. And I like everyone to start from that point when you start learning something and I divide sometimes workspace designing learning space, this is a two separate identity just for the sake of clients, so that they don't get confused, but I think they are about the same in principle. And so for employees exactly the same and, for example, you walk into some event and to learn, I didn't know one day workshops, in writing going into space that are used as normal squares, they, we had privileges that, you know, the speakers standing at the front and that type of situation is quite common. So rather than going into that space, imagine you open the door and there are space with lots of trees. You know, you can see sunlight coming in, and people sitting around and talking and just gives a different you know, it's reading in, oh, my God, I'm finally engaged with my heart. What I want to do right Oh, I'm just going there listening to these. So it's just a different way of thinking and olden days we thinking about more logically, with a left brain function, but now, people wants to engage with more right side. So this this what the learning space design is we'll be more flourish if you design when you think that way.

Lachy Gray  29:39

Fantastic. Well, thank you, Christina. And I'd like to just run through a couple of takeaways from today, I think, interesting to hear talk about how offices have changed how we use them has changed and it's actually a great opportunity to rethink office space. And how they can best serve us in the future. We talked about the importance of including her employees in the process. ATP, I haven't heard that. Ask the person

Karen K  30:13

and it's not actually mine. I heard it at a conference many years ago. So I can't claim that one but I do use a kind of this good

Lachy Gray  30:25

place to start ask us for thoughts and feedback and involve them in the process and consider the whole person during the day and acknowledge that our energy will change and and how can we design our office space to accommodate links to articles and anything else we've discussed will be on our websites yano.com au and amplify hr.com Today you just follow the links to the podcast section. If you've received value from this episode, we would love it if you could leave a rating or review over at Apple podcasts and you can get in touch with christina@mullins.com that is M E L I N Zed K i m.com or via LinkedIn.

Karen K  31:10

Yeah, thank you so much, Christina for joining us today and also on the website. We'll put a link to an image that you share that you talked through today as well about human centric design and how you connect those three components of connectivity, wellness and high performance to that holistic approach in the workplace. And coming up in our next episode, we're going to discuss vulnerability at work and how do we balance vulnerability with oversharing?

Lachy Gray  31:40

Yeah, so that's coming up in two weeks from now. So if you click subscribe, you'll get notified when that is available. Any final thoughts? Karen?

Karen K  31:48

I loved the idea. The workspace is evolving so great with Christina. You can still the ATP at all still that? You know, obviously talking to employees is that first step in workplace design, I think it's simple but often forgotten. And also you talked about imagine, and isn't that a great way to start? So if you're thinking about how do we learn in the workplace, or how do we come together? How do we collaborate? Well, what happens if you just imagine, you know what happens if you start to visualize what that might look like? And you know, you may never be able to create what you're imagining, but it's a great place to start. So thank you so much for joining us, and we will see you next time on the maker work podcast.