How can you be Vulnerable at Work?

Transcript

Lachy Gray  00:35

So interesting? Yeah, I think vulnerability really is a hot topic right now. And so it should be and I'd actually hope it's a silver lining from COVID that we had the opportunity to be more vulnerable. You know, you're on zoom in, you see a kid coming into the background and dog barking, realize that we're all humans. We've all got laws, we're all juggling. So, I mean, for me, I think it's thought leaders like Rene brown have really shown us a floodlight on vulnerability at work and argued the case for being more vulnerable because I guess it wasn't really a topic for discussion was it for decades. And I think, for many of us and me, included, it's a scary thought, vulnerability at work. And I think there's these competing forces of the more traditional command and control leadership style the last 60 years where leaders are strong and in control, they don't show emotion. That behavior modeled bringing a master work, that's how our work persona and it was we played a character that we felt would best serve us in the company we work for. We didn't want to show our true self. You want to be vulnerable, that that was a risk. That was dangerous, and no one else was doing it. So why should we? And I think over time, that approach is thought and we've got leaders like Renee I feel like I can call her first name. I haven't met her. But she encourages us to bring our whole selves to work to be vulnerable. And that's a strength to really flipped it on her head. And I think that's a huge shift. And I read one of pronase books last year, daring greatly. And there's one sentence there that particularly stood out to me. And it is that vulnerability is the last thing I want you to see in me. But the first thing I look for in you it really resonated with me and I thought that is certainly true for me. And that describes my challenge with vulnerability, and I get it that it builds connection and trust. And I know when someone's vulnerable with me that I feel closer to them. But I just find it hard especially at work and as a leader to be to be vulnerable. Because I assume that a leader needs to show resilience and they can ride the peaks and troughs and as a business owner if if I share the things I'm worried about. I don't want the team to be worried about those things as well if, if I don't have control over them, I don't want to burden them. So I saw vulnerability as a weakness. And it's actually the first myth that Brene takes aim at in that book. And she says, vulnerability isn't good or bad. It to feel is to be vulnerable. To how does that resonate with you Karen?

Karen K  03:38

Yeah, I love Brene Brown and I actually last weekend I was mentioning to someone her Netflix special. And they said Brian, who so I need to remember that not everybody is in love with Brene Brown who has her on a first name basis as you do Lachy's. So, for those listening, it is b r e and e Brown. And, you know, she is She says that she's uh, if she doesn't want to have a conversation with you, then she will tell you that she's a shame researcher because that shuts down all conversations. But she is a shame researcher but she also reaches researchers into courage and vulnerability in the connection of those and she has so many great tidbits and if I may, my two favorites, one that I actually was lucky enough recently to use in a workshop because someone had mentioned that they read one of her books and so we used it as a mantra for the day which was choose courage over comfort. And I really, I try and remember that and it's hard. It's really hard sometimes to choose courage over comfort because, you know, that's going to get us out of our happy place and send us into the unknown. But also my particular favorite, which I actually quite often is around soft skills and she says if you want to call these soft skills after you've tried putting them into practice, go for it. I dare you. And then when I was considering vulnerability and why Yeah, it's become more more popular leadership context, which I think is down to hers and she started that conversation. But if you look at the dictionary definition of vulnerability, it says capable of being physically or emotionally wounded. And then the second definition is open to attack or damage. assailable vulnerable to criticism really? Yes. So that is really interesting to me and perhaps Yeah, that's why we were using the term vulnerability in a leadership setting when making people feel uncomfortable because that definition is awful right? Oh accurate. It all is. Well, but maybe Brene Brown is changing the definition of vulnerability. You know, she is seen as that vulnerability expert, and you know, at risk of making episode all about her, but you know, she describes being vulnerable as uncertainty, risk and emotional exposure, which is quite different to those dictionary definitions. And, you know, that's essential to being a successful leader and her research shows that there is no courage without vulnerability, whereas we've been raised to believe that vulnerability is a weakness. So, you know, if you haven't come across a word, if you're not a reader, you can watch her Netflix special. It's a really great overview of vulnerability, and how it's essential in the workplace. So that I was thinking about when I do workshops, and I asked leaders to list characteristics of great leaders, they've worked with, you know, vulnerability doesn't actually appear on the list. So things like you know, supportive, inspiring, listened, understood me have my back trusted me pushed me to do my best, you know, honest, consistent, you know, they often come up. So, to be vulnerable and to encourage leaders to be vulnerable. I think we need to be first clear on what that is. And if we use that new research, that it's about showing empathy, not having all the answers, and being honest about that and being ourselves not trying to be professional and cool, like you said, not having that mask on. And I think ultimately it's about accepting our unique humaneness and building trust through honesty and connections and empathy and authenticity. What are your thoughts?

Lachy Gray  07:46

Well, I'm blown away by that dictionary definition. But perhaps that's talking to the, the ultimate ly negative outcome. And we're talking a few rungs up above that and I think you've actually you identified the behaviors. Because vulnerability is such a broad term. It's, do we agree on what it means clearly not within the dictionary definition, so it's probably more so about actual behaviors, like you said, showing empathy, listening, saying, I don't know. Someone asks you a question. Not trying to be something that you're not. And I've thought about this as well from a from a leadership perspective. I think when when we're being asked to be more vulnerable, as a leader, especially I don't think it's to share everything that's going on for us. My understanding is that the two foundational elements that vulnerability requires trust and boundaries and if we're in a work environment where we don't feel safe to share, and where people who do share what's going on for them are told to toughened up or mocked or mistreated and made fun of that's a really strong signal that we should absolutely not be vulnerable. It's a risk. And if we don't trust our colleagues and leaders to respect us when we share, we're just not going to do it. So I think for me, that's the first part. And then the second part for vulnerability to happen is it requires boundaries. Which it's an interesting concept. So rather than showing vulnerability, by downloading onto your manager or in your, in your one on one meeting about what's going on in your personal life, it's acknowledging that there are boundaries and that putting boundaries in places is healthy. And it's actually a really key component work for vulnerabilities succeed because both parties know where they stand. And they as leaders, we play a fundamental role here in creating that environment that's built on and fosters trust. And by leading by example, and being vulnerable with a team ourselves, to show it's okay, to be vulnerable, and it's a safe space. So for example, I've shared with my team in the past when I've been feeling down and not my usual self, and that's not for them to try and solve it or make me feel better, but just to know that that's where I'm at on that particular day. And I think we need to communicate where the boundaries are. So that might be saying no to a request feels too personal. Or when we're onboarding a new staff member. Explaining that in one on ones it's okay to share what's going on for them. Yeah, they still have responsibility and accountability for their own behavior. And boundary setting boundaries is something I've been challenged by in the past as a leader because I really try and leave with empathy. My instinct is probably help probably more than I should. And that's something that I'm actively working on. And I've actually done a few counseling sessions with our VIPs to coach me through it, but I found it really beneficial.

Karen K  11:15

Yeah, those boundaries are so important, and it's a fantastic podcast called make it work. Series Two, episode three where the host talks about finding that balance of oversharing. But, you know, back to some of those great points that you were making, you know, firstly, thank you for your vulnerability and what you just shared, because, you know, many people would feel uncomfortable in doing that. But also I was just looking through, you know, my list of those characteristics of great leaders that people talk about. And I was trying to think back to do I feel I've worked for a leader that showed vulnerability. And I think I have and when I have we've actually had really great relationships and I still friends, years later, what's been your experience like if you think back to previous managers, do you think that they showed any vulnerability to you?

Lachy Gray  12:14

I could probably think of one. Yeah. And I had a really, really strong relationship with them. But the to the point where it sort of turns into a friendship and it gets blurred, and which I think can become tricky as well. So games being clear about what the boundaries between work and, and friendship.

Karen K  12:40

Yeah, and I have to probably say that when I've become friends with my experiences, it's been after we're not working together anymore. Which, you know, is is a boundary that I've always had in place and probably you know, is part of working in HR. It's very difficult to have friends at work, unfortunately. Especially if you're in a standalone HR role, and you don't have an HR team. It's very difficult to build relationships with people in the business because, yeah, you never know what could happen. In a few days, a few weeks time or you know, perceptions of other people as well. It can make it difficult, but, you know, I like the idea of vulnerability at work. I think it is important, I think, part of talking about it. Is trying to break down and what does it actually mean? Because we're not talking about that terrible dictionary definition. You know, some of what you were saying it really goes into psychological safety, doesn't it? Because if you have a workplace where you've built psychological safety, then that's going to lend itself to people being more vulnerable. So, you know, perhaps that's the first step actually to having more vulnerability at work is really working on that psychological safety aspects of the business.

Lachy Gray  14:04

I like that. And you because the question there is, well, so if we say, Okay, well, what does being vulnerable mean in our workplace? And then well, what's stopping us from being vulnerable now, and that is probably a vulnerable conversation in itself. Because it's going to uncover or bring to the light aspects of the culture, isn't it? Well, we don't feel comfortable or it's not being modeled for us, or this person did and look what happened to them. So yeah, I think it has to go into it with an open mind and management that there could be some pretty challenging conversations ahead, but that the ultimate outcome is is worth it.

Karen K  14:53

Yeah, no, I think that's a great point. And it's, you know, I've found that over. I would say probably the last 567 years there's been more focus in leadership programs on being open and honest and vulnerable and people talking about themselves as a person and not as a worker. But I still when I run workshops will have people that will say to me, Well, I don't know how to answer this question. I don't know how to do this activity because are you talking about me at work or me at home? And it's very common, and I, I struggle to see how you can be a completely different person at home, then you're out work and if you do do that, Wow, that must be so tiring. And so it does open a conversation because I do ask that question. Are you tired? And what do you mean by that? Because particularly when you're doing psychometric assessments, you know, you shouldn't just be answering that as you as a person. And people say, Well, you know, I've got this result, and I don't agree with it, because in my personal life, I'm not that person. And, you know, maybe that is that we've built a culture over years in the workplace of actually building that mask. And now we're moving into a phase of actually, let's remove that and let's just start to be people. Which would be very interesting, I think. Because there will be many people that be very uncomfortable with that idea of sharing and you know, being being personal at work.

Lachy Gray  16:32

Yeah, for sure. And I think a comment like that when you shared is reflected as, of course of their person, but perhaps of the culture in their career experiences, which is a shame. So what do you what would you do? What would you recommend if trying to have this conversation or start this conversation at our workplace? And we just can't get it off the ground is not the interest. There's like, Oh, that's not how we do things. You know, just focus on your work. What would you recommend do in that situation?

Karen K  17:06

Oh, I think it depends on is that what you want? So if you want to work place where you just want to focus on your work that might be perfectly whereas if you want to, you know, grow yourself and learn more and stretch yourself further then that's not going to be a great place. So the question then becomes, well, you know, do I have the power and the motivation and the want to try and change that and, and I think if you do, then you stay and you look at you know, okay, well how do we build that psychological safety in the workshop in the workplace and and if you don't, then maybe look for other things. And I think if you're a business owner, what does it mean? You know, you you need to start thinking about well, should you get on that vulnerability train. And perhaps that starts with just doing some research and deciding what vulnerable means to you, and what behaviors that means that you would display in the workplace because if you're an owner or a senior leader, if the business you know, it's the behaviors that you show that dictate what other people will then show as well. I think things like emotional intelligence, testing and development are really important because you know, they are grounded obviously, in emotions and empathy and sharing. You know, it all goes into vulnerability. You know, reading Brene Browns work would be an excellent place to start. And I think you really just need to decide for yourself yeah, am I comfortable and developing in a leader as this way? Versus Okay, well, vulnerability to me is just telling people the honest truth, you know, hey, revenues down. I'm feeling like crap, but I don't know what this business is headed. That's not vulnerability. And that's actually not going to be effective at all. So I think it's just working out, you know, what does that look like and am I willing to develop in in that way? Well said, Thank you. So I think takeaways from today is to, you know, consider yourself as a leader and where your business is now. Is this something that you want to pursue further and if you do, you know, we've given you two different resources. We also put them on the website, you know, one psychological safety, which is Amy Edmondson, which has got some great videos on YouTube. You've also got the Google doc Ray work.com website, which gives a lot of practical advice on how to build psychological safety in the workplace. And of course, Brene Brown who has a fantastic website, lots of books, Netflix special, lots of podcasts, as well and so links to all those will be available. Over on our website, just follow the links to yahoo.com.au or amplify hr.com.au. And if you receive value from this episode, we'd love it if you could leave a rating or review over at Apple podcasts

Lachy Gray  20:03

and coming up in the next episode, we discuss using rewards to motivate and engage your teams.

Karen K  20:09

Awesome. So that podcast episode is coming up in two weeks from now I click the subscribe button and you'll be notified of when that's available. Any final thoughts Lachy.

Lachy Gray  20:19

Let's think about invulnerability at work. Is that something that you that you wanted to do you want to be vulnerable at work and if so, what does that look like? Thanks so much for joining us, and we'll see you next time on the Make It Work podcast.