Prioritising Workplace Mental Health and Burnout Support

Transcript

Lachy Gray  00:16

In today's episode, we discuss anxiety, stress and burnout. If these topics are triggering for you support is available, call lifeline on 131114, or beyond blue on 1300 to 24636. So there is a lot of collective stress and anxiety in our lives. We've gone from COVID to global conflict and natural disasters, challenging economic conditions, and a rising cost of living, and certainly here in Australia. And in Australia, too, we've got an upcoming bushfire season. Off the back of a summer, that's expected to be the hottest on record. So there's a lot to process. And Research released this month by the Australian Bureau of Statistics, titled national study of mental health and well being says that 42%, almost one in two people aged 16 to 85 have experienced a mental disorder at some time in their lives. And a disorder can be anxiety, substance use, and anxiety. And anxiety is the most common at 17% of people aged 16 to 85. So that's almost one in five. That's a lot. It's very high. And this is sort of outside workplace, I was thinking well wonder if the workplace is in contributing to this as well. And one study I found in the workplace, said that 44% of employees are suffering from some level of burnout. So again, very high. So how do you see this presenting in the workplace? Karen?

Karen Kirton  01:58

Yeah, and I think they're pretty sobering statistics, aren't they? And I think it's, you know, really exhausting for people to try and wear a face at work. And I think in years gone by that was the expectation, I'm starting to see that move down, which is great. You know, from my perspective, the best workplaces are ones where people can feel comfortable and not judged to just say, you know, what, I'm not okay, today, or I'm not okay, at the moment, I need some adjustments for a time. And, you know, for some people that could be taking sick leave, and might just be starting later or finishing earlier, or focusing on different tasks than they normally would. But I think whatever it might be, if it's available to an employee, then that just gives them that space to focus on their health, which means they will be back and productive at work much sooner, rather than just trying to, you know, keep on keeping on. And I was thinking about this topic, in my own experiences. And, you know, all those things that you said, the preamble that's happening in the world today. And, you know, recently I attended offsite day with a client, and it was right after the referendum weekend. And so I was chatting to the CEO beforehand. And I asked him, you know, are you okay to actually recognise in your opening, that there has been a no vote. But also, there are terrible events unfolding in the Middle East at the moment. So you know, not everyone in the room is potentially bringing their their best selves today. Because those events do impact all of us in different ways. And he agreed, and he added that into his welcome. And then actually, at the end of the day, one of the participants thanked us for including and considering this, because I said it made him feel like it was okay to not be 100%. That day, where sometimes, particularly those off sites, and you're talking about big ticket strategy items, people feel like, Oh, I've got I've got to bring up my game. And sometimes you just can't. And, you know, it can be hard if you feel like I do sometimes that you're the big lefty in the room. But, you know, part of enabling those conversations is starting them and normalising them in the workplace. So, you know, I think that if I reflect back on the last few years, organisations did a lot during 2020 2021 to be really intentional about mental health support. It was that collective global situation. But you know, perhaps that's fallen back off the radar again, as people get back to the inverted commas, normal lives, but you know, as you said, this, there's still a lot going on, and it does impact us in different ways.

Lachy Gray  04:49

Well, I hope it's not falling off the radar because I think it's, it's more important than ever. And, yeah, I've been thinking about this as well because it It's a real focus of ours at Diano on mental fitness and it's not something I've seen modelled myself. I haven't worked in a workplace where this has been modelled where the leaders talked about mental health where they supported conversations around taking time off, to invest in mental health. So it's relatively new for me. And which I've found to be a real journey. Because, yeah, I think it can be challenging to talk about mental health. And there is an expectation in many workplaces that you just turn up and you do your job. And you've got to sort if you're not okay, then you sorted out. Yeah. Which is bizarre. When you think about it, that is also how it's just seems to traditionally have been done that sort of stiff upper lip. So what is a company's responsibility to its employees mental health and well being?

Karen Kirton  06:07

Yeah, and I think there's probably two sides to that the legal responsibilities in Australia, at least where there's a duty of care under the WHS laws, you know, and some people mistakenly believe that if someone has a mental health condition, and it's exacerbated at work, and that isn't the organization's problem. But that's just not the case. You know, even if someone has an underlying condition, if their workplace is exacerbating that, then that's still the workplace injuries. So you know, and there are now psychosocial risks code of practice in different states across Australia. Which means that organisations need to look at WHS risks in the workplace holistically. So not just those physical risks, but you know, psychosocial risks, which are described as things like under work overwork, remote or isolated work, which is more common now, you know, poor support from managers, or co workers, like a role clarity, you know, so I know a lot of businesses that I've spoken to have been quite frightened by that expectation. But, you know, really, what it means is just taking those risks and saying, Okay, well, we know that these things can happen in the workplace. Let's assess them. So what's the likelihood and the potential that this could be happening in our workplace and harming our workers, and then put in place control measures, which, you know, with these types of risks are usually things like processes and policies, training, managers monitoring what's going on the workplace and asking employee questions, God forbid, you know, and then monitoring their effectiveness. So it's not asking an awful lot. You know, in smaller businesses, it's as you get bigger, and you have more resources, obviously, you can do more. So I think, you know, that's sort of the legal side. And then, of course, you know, the other side is the ethical responsibilities. And the question about, well, what kind of workplace Do you want to be? And, you know, I've definitely seen managers get really frustrated, they get confused, because they don't know how to help. And it can be a really tough position when you want to support someone, but you also just need the work to be done. And, you know, I think, going back to psychological safety, which we discussed with Linda Marie, in series three, Episode 18, if you can start to put some of those principles in your workplace, and that can help to have open discussions, because having those conversations based on trust are really important. So I think if we combine those two things together, you know, what companies need to do is ask questions, and they need to get information when someone has mental health challenges, because we've got to make sure that we're not doing anything to cause further illness or injury.

Lachy Gray  08:55

Yeah, and I know that feeling I know, when I still feel that to a degree, like wanting to support the team in the best way, but not being sure how to do that. Because it is a complex topic, isn't it? And you're dealing with people in their lives and then their mental health. And if you're doing that, you know, it's one of many things that you're working on. It can be tiring, it can be emotionally tiring yourself. And then you think about I have to support myself as well through the same thing. So that study that I mentioned, the mentally healthy workplace study, found that burnout was significantly predicted by the degree to which employees had positive emotional and mental experiences at work, had control over the work. So autonomy and also the emotional and financial stresses outside of work, which speaks to what I mentioned in the in the intros that there is so much going on outside of work and whether that is changed over time, or the fact that we have more access to it, because we've got this 24 by seven news cycle. There's a lot of inputs, I think it's so many inputs coming in, um, that we have to try and filter our way through. And actually, I was reading on Friday, companies are experimenting with meeting free days, and also four day workweeks, and the article that I read was about Medibank. Start starting this month actually, trialling a 180 100. So 100% of the pay 80% of the hours 100% of the productivity. They're trying that for 250 staff, and they said their focus was to increase productivity. And they hope that they'll be happier, the staff will be happier and healthier. As a result, which I thought was interesting, because I would have thought it'd be the other way around. Or say, let's hope that the staff are happier and healthier. And then they'll be more productive as a result. However, we get there that I think that's I think it's a positive step. I think too, I was thinking about technology, I think how quickly it's changed. And I thought that it would be for the better, like we would be working less. But I don't think that's true. So I think that, like technology, for example, enables flexible work. And that can be a cure, and the cause is what we're talking about. So it enables flexible working, I work fully remotely, I could not do that. Without technology. So online calls, video calls, programmes like Slack for messaging. But it can also make switching off really difficult. So you can work from anywhere. So it's actually really hard not to do that. Not to work anywhere. So it's easy actually to work more, move less, and spend less time with family and friends. So I think actually, I feel as though you have to be so disciplined with how to use technology. And that's a starring in of itself. I think into redesigning work to match people's preferences, they mentioned this in the study. And we've talked past seasons about this sort of movement away from job roles to skills to understanding the work that people are actually doing and trying to match that to their strengths. Again, like it's time consuming, but I think it is is beneficial. And also managing workload. So they're listening to, to our team to understand their experience. And I guess the takeaway there is that, again, like listening is an investment of time, and emotional energy. Because what if we don't like what they say? Sure. And I think, yeah, for leaders, as you said before, like, that's scary. Because what if you don't have a solution off the bat? What if this is the first time you're doing this, or you don't feel like you have support from your leadership? To support your team? Like I appreciate that's a very challenging position to be in. So what are some ways that you see companies support mental health and wellbeing in the workplace?

Karen Kirton  13:45

Yeah, and I think they're good examples about being intentional about what you can offer, as an organisation. And I know that we spoke in a past episode about, you know, trying to set up those boundaries, because as a manager can be really difficult. Because, you know, we're not trained, we're not mental health specialists. So we've also got to be careful about that as well. But, you know, there are some really great resources out there. And you mentioned before Beyond Blue, you know, they give ideas for how to have conversations with your manager, if you're an employee that wants to bring this up, but you don't know how. And it also gives resources for managers to know. Okay, well, how do I respond to those conversations? So, you know, I think they fantastic resources, Employee Assistance Providers are quite helpful, you know, for employees and their managers to access free counselling. You know, and sometimes people assume that this is unnecessary and so why do I need to spend a couple of grand every year for this in my business? You know, people can just go to their GP, they can get in mental health plan. But, you know, there's still a big gap in doing that. There's a cost gap, and there's an effort as well so, you know, to get a mental health plan is still financial gap of around $100 per session that's been conservative. Psychologists aren't cheap. And you know, but there's also that gap in terms of effort. So if I'm feeling anxious or depressed or stressed, that's a huge step for me to make an appointment with my GP, it's a big barrier. And then I've got to talk to my GP about it, and get them to agree Oh, yes, okay, well, here's your mental health. And then I've got to go and talk about it again, to a psychologist. So you know, so I think, really, for businesses, no matter their size, I know, AAPs can feel like they're an added extra, but there's a huge value there in someone just having a support line to call and get that immediate, free support without having to go through those steps. And, you know, most of the providers will have a manager line as well. So even if it's not the employee seeking assistance, the managers can do so. So, you know, I, and I don't run an EAP just to disclose. But I do think, you know, there's one thing that an employer could do to invest some money that would be in there, obviously, other things that don't cost as much like I know that, ya know, have during the day, so if you're not feeling great through the year, you can just say, Hey, I'm just having a dinner day today, you know, and they're not costly. You're just giving up, you know, a day or two a year of time. So, but I think it comes back to that intention or so thinking about, you know, this is important in our workplace, what can we do? And then let's start to put some steps in place.

Lachy Gray  16:33

Yeah, definitely. And I wasn't familiar with an AIP. Until you recommended to me, oh, a couple of years ago now. And I'm really thankful that you did. Because we've, we signed up, and we still use any IP. And I've used the manager hotline, that's fantastic. For different perspective on a challenge that I'm having at work. And I just like that, someone's asking you questions, they've got no judgement, no invested interest, you know, in my workplace, in the business or anything, just to be there to listen and to talk it through, I find it really helpful. I still think there is a stigma attached to seeking help for mental health. I feel that sometimes there's the attitude that we'll only do it when it's really bad. And then I'll do it. For sure. Definitely got that. And I was talking to my team about this last week. And I've really changed my perspective on this overtime. I used to think like that as well. And I think that's perhaps how we think about medicine, you know, you go to the doctor when you're sick, and you get fixed, yes. But if we actually change how we think about it, do how we think about physical fitness, which is, you know, I run and swim and work out proactively for my physical fitness. So why wouldn't I do the same for my mental fitness, and proactively have a conversation? And sometimes I feel like, Oh, what are we going to talk about? You know, everything's fine. And then a couple of questions in so Whoa, this is seeing in my subconscious that is sitting there that I hadn't processed but needed to Yes, and it feels like a weight off my shoulders. And it's extremely beneficial. I think. So. Yeah, as you mentioned, so we do have an AIP, I thought I'd share some of the other things that we do. And this is by no means an exhaustive list. But it's something that we're that we're really passionate about. So I mentioned work design. So I think having a clear job scorecard, we call them or job description, and being very clear about roles and responsibilities, that helps a lot. sets expectations, what people can expect of us and what we should expect of them. Having autonomy over when and where we work from is a lot of conversation about hybrid work and how many days in the office, that's important and it's not going to be a one size fits all. Talking about well being, you know what we're doing right now. But talking about it at work. We've done training recently for you, okay, so learning that are you okay framework, and learning what to do and say if someone says they're not okay, because my assumption is that that could hold us back. If we want to check in, we don't know what to do. If they say oh, no, I'm not. I'm not okay. And we found that beneficial to from setting boundaries On and knowing when to say, Hey, I'm not a mental health expert, but I would like to support you and connect you, someone who is this having that language, I find really beneficial using regular one on one meetings as a space to check in, and then share how you're going. And we do what we call campfire updates. So every morning in Slack, we do a written update of what we're working on. And how we're feeling. And usually we just use a an emoji. And yeah, we might be tired, might be sad, or frustrated, might be really happy, you know, but the message is that it's okay to not be okay. And it's okay not to be sunshine every day. And as you mentioned, during the days for when you don't feel like it, you're just not up to what you understand the donor, but also proactive well being those, so paying them in advance and their for self care and time for us personally, to do something that we enjoy gives us gives us happiness. So and I, one other thing I want to share from this study is interesting, it said that the majority, so three quarters of people in this study, felt that in their team, people treat each other in a way that positively supports mental health and well being. So I thought, well, that's fantastic. And similarly, about three quarters were positive about the availability of support for mental health from their workplace. But only half felt their leadership team considered mental health as important as getting the job done. So there's a bit of a mismatch if the majority are positive about the supports, but still, almost one in two are experiencing some form of burnout at work. So why do you think that is current?

Karen Kirton  21:59

Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it. And I'm not an expert in this area. But I think, as we were talking before, there's a lot happening in the world. And, you know, I've done some some research and even pre COVID, the 2019, the WHO labelled burnout as an occupational phenomenon. And they said, it's a work based syndrome caused by chronic stress. So, you know, perhaps it is the 24/7 nature of our lives, people feeling, it's difficult to switch off from work. And so it's difficult to switch off from the terrible world news. And, you know, I think the important part for me is that you're just all of us to remember that we all have different levels of capacity to cope. And, you know, those levels will also change over time. So, yeah, as you were saying before, that sort of, I will just get on with it. You know, I think we need to be careful not to dismiss someone's concerns over stress, because we don't know everything that's happening in their lives, and our ability to cope may be higher than theirs. So you know, it's important to listen, and provide that support that was spoken about today.

Lachy Gray  23:17

It's a really good point. Those talk about some takeaways, I think, for me, you're having the awareness in the workplace, about mental health and well being and feeling comfortable talking about it. And if that's not your culture, at the moment, talking about how it could be like, what are the first steps? And it might be doing some training in something like, are you okay, or accidental counsellor, is another one that I think lifeline run? Really good. Just to give us a framework to use and to talk about, just to get started. I really liked that point that you made that we all experience stress and anxiety differently. And I think, yeah, as I've experienced it in the past, it can be dismissed, how someone else is feeling because it might be too hard to you feel challenged if you really have to dive in and, and talk about it, that I think that is actually what is needed. So acknowledging that as well, is important. How about you, Karen?

Karen Kirton  24:31

Yeah, I liked what you shared about what you're doing it ya know, because I think that shows how, you know, even for someone as you said, this has not been modelled for you. So you didn't have a basis to come from but it's a credit to you and mark that you've gone out and said okay, well how can we bring this into our business? So I hope that helps people listening to say even if you don't know where to start, you've given six things there which are really easy, important things that organise Patients can start looking at to bring in to the organisation, which I think is great.

Lachy Gray  25:06

Well links to articles and anything else we've discussed will be over on our websites I know.com. Today you and amplify hr.com. There, you just follow the links to the podcast section. If you receive value from this episode, we would love it if you could leave a rating or review over on Apple podcasts, we do have a special offer for our listeners. And you can access that on our link tree. Li NK ter dot e slash make it work podcast.

Karen Kirton  25:34

And our next episode is in two weeks, and we actually don't have too many left for 2023.

Lachy Gray  25:41

No, we do know so click the subscribe button to be notified when it's available. Any final thoughts? Karen?

25:48

I think just go back to where we started from you know, I've been discussing stress and burnout and we're all coming to a time of you that can be particularly challenging for many people. So please remember that support is available and people care about you. You are important. So call lifeline on 1311 14 or beyondblue on 1300 Double to 4636.

Lachy Gray  26:08

Well, thanks so much for joining us, and we'll see you next time on the Make It Work podcast.