Building Upskilling Into Every Day

Transcript

Lachy Gray: In today's episode, we discussed how you can build consistent practices for learning and upskilling at work. Unfortunately, learning is seen by some organizations as a nice to have. It gets deprioritised when you get busy, like in the financial year in the period that we're in now in in June in Australia, or revenue gets tight or there's high staff we know that to be effective learning needs to be consistent. If you consider your school days imagine if you went to school for two months, and then took a month off because you had other priorities can be disruptive and not conducive to long-term growth. Deep prioritizing learning and growth in the workplace can be a key motivator for people to look for another job, and one that does value learning and does invest in their self-development. So Karen, what's your perspective on this?

Karen Kirton  01:28

I think it's a great way to think about that with schooling and I really when I did my undergrad, I always did summer school because otherwise I found that three months off uni was just too disruptive. And I just found it super hard to get back into uni again when the semester began. As much as people thought that I was crazy for doing that but helped me get through my degree faster as well. Yeah, yeah. But look, I think it is tough to build upscaling into every day. But we also know how important it is for the engagement of our people and the ongoing growth and viability of our businesses. And I heard someone quoted a stat which was from culture amp at the small business expo in Melbourne recently and they said that culture amp have found from their surveys at the top reason people join and stay in organization is growth and development. So you know, we know it's important and then when I was thinking about well, what do I see that works? Well in terms of just putting it into that every day? I thought a couple of things. So one is putting learning on the team agenda when you've got your team meetings. I'm a big proponent for doing at least one thing per month. That's a learning activity and with our business at amplify HR, we offer monthly leadership master classes to our clients. And with those master classes, I do say to everybody at the end, you know, just pick one thing from today that you are going to do and just write down. What's the one thing when you're going to do it by Why are you doing it so you remember because that helps to submit that learning as to why it's important and then who are you going to tell when you've done it? Because we know from learning theory that having that accountability person is actually really important. But I think other things as well, you know, hiring new people, like we think can forget that actually, we're learning from them. We're not just giving them information. And so you know, making sure that we're providing a safe space where new people can bring up ideas that they don't feel like they've got to do everything the way that they're being told to do it because they might have some great new insights that they're bringing into the organization. And of course, I've got to mention micro learning so you know, something like the Yano platform where you've just got those quiz based learning couple of questions a day. I think that's a great way to just sort of embed learning without having that traditional Okay, I need to get away from my desk for a day a month type of thing.

Lachy Gray  04:38

Yeah, I like that. I like how practical those those ideas are. And it is true. We've had two new people start at Yano in the last few months. And I really enjoy hearing their perspective on how we do things. Because I think you have fresh eyes for a period of time and then you become familiar. And even with a process that doesn't make sense at first, you can familiarize yourself to it. And then that's just how everybody does it. So I really make a point of saying, Hey, let us know, because in three months time this will just feel familiar. And you'll lost that that new fresh perspective. So I agree with that one. And I think we've spoken previously about trying to shift our perspective on learning and upskilling from formal training, you know, days in the classroom or days off work that really require scheduling and a lot of time investment and preparation. Perhaps if you're delivering the learning, we can move away from that it's a lot of other ways to learn. So, one way that we do it, ya know, we've had a team learning on to the end of our weekly team where in the past, we did say Lunch and Learns during the week and the attendance was optional and inconsistent. So we said, hey, look, it's important to be consistent with it. So now we're all the team with it's the one meeting each week that we're all there. So we've added 25 minutes onto the end of it. And now we do short presentations or we do our feedback. roleplays or we share customer winning or a customer someone's presented some recommendations to a customer, they'll share that as well. So we have that opportunity to collectively upskill so a small learning moment, I guess you could call it.

Karen Kirton  06:33

Yeah, I think it's great that you do those I've seen a lot of organizations attempt Lunch and Learns because it like it is in theory like a great idea. But at some point they do fall down and what I find is that people stop volunteering to present you know, and sometimes that goes hand in hand with attendance waning. So then people think well, why do I want to spend an hour of my time if you know for people turn up? So yeah, we're interested actually, in what you're doing with those weekly team reps that can you share more about your alternative and then how you organize their small learning moments like Do you have a schedule of people that speak every week? How do you do that?

Lachy Gray  07:16

It is something that that has evolved over time because we have similar results to what you just described. So great early on, and there's probably a few people who aren't keen and they will start and then it does take a lot. So I think being clear about what we want to achieve and why at the start that needs to be communicated. We need to be really clear about that. And I have found that, you know, a calendar or schedule does help so we've got one for the year. It's, we've, we split out by month. We do a variety of things. So we'll do one at least one Jano campaign. a month. We'll do at least one feedback session, or at least one short presentation or Pecha Kucha is the technical term is 20 slides, each goes for 20 seconds and the slides automatically advance. So it's really great to to practice both presenting skills, but also communicating succinctly in our lunch and learn topics, which is I guess, no longer Lunch and Learn because there are at the end of the team with but then having that calendar means that I just broke it in in advance. So, hey, Karen, you're up in June, who's had presentation ready for this date? With the short presentations, people can present whatever they like with the Lunch and Learns It's usually more focused on sharing their domain expertise, something that's going to benefit the team at work and I think it's really acknowledging that everyone's got expertise in in something or many things. And identifying that and leveraging it like this so much knowledge locked away in people's heads. So it's about unlocking now. And these short presentations Lunch and Learns whatever you whatever the vehicle is a really good way to steer to share that info. And we also if someone does attend a formal training event, we ask them to share what they've learned with the team. So Steph, our product manager, went to a product conference last week. She wrote up her learnings and then shared with them with the team in Slack. So we can all read a better than a bunch of questions to her off the back of that so we had an interesting conversation. And if there's wider interest in that, then staff might do a presentation on that. And I actually think that having to present something that you've learned is a great way to learn. Yeah, it's easy to go to a conference or a training event, taking all that info and then come away with not much really three months later. Are you doing anything different? Probably not. So I think it can benefit there too.

Karen Kirton  10:17

Yeah, that's so true. And it made me think about years ago, I came across an organization that had in their learning and development policy that they would only approve the money for you to go to a training session or a conference if you agreed to present on it back to the team when you returned. And at the time, I thought, Oh God that's a bit over the top in terms of being in a policy, but then I realized that it actually does help to cement the expectation and I agree it's a great way for that person to actually submit their own learning by having to come back and talk about it and it also actually helps the team as well.

Lachy Gray  10:59

All the way we do it. We all read a book, The IANA leadership team or reading a book called The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni. And then we discuss it and we're doing it next week actually. So some people roll their eyes at writing a book because that is never going to happen. So you don't have to read it. You can listen to it. This is a short book. And it's about you going through something at the same time, sharing ideas or perspectives on it, and then relating it back to the workplace. I think it's an interesting vehicle because you hear different perspectives on the same topic.

Karen Kirton  11:42

Yeah, that's a great idea. I've had it before where people read different books and then share their insights in a short prayer. So but I think that you know, Book Club idea of all reading the same book could be really powerful, and especially something like Patrick Lencioni as you can all reflect on those five dysfunctions and then have some great conversations about your perspectives on if you see any of those actually rear their head at ya know, as well I think that will be really super interesting.

Lachy Gray  12:13

And I think also looking for opportunities. In our networks. So amplify hrs your masterclass is a fantastic Karen, we we always have a yacht or attend every month. Our team does. Welcome down we tend to this week, actually, I think and share these learnings in Slack as well. Our VIP for regular training to encourage the team to attend. Excellent. So that's all well and good. And if you ladies encouraged in W learning but what if we work in an environment that doesn't value it must be too busy for marketers not a priority.

Karen Kirton  12:59

Yeah, and I think we're all busy and it's true. You run a learning company. Pretty funny if you have that happening. In your organization. But you know, for me, it shouldn't matter which business you you work for or you run, you know, it's all about what you prioritize. So, you know, we all have limited time. So if we don't prioritize learning, then we know it's really not going to happen. So you know, like we discussed about having a learning culture if the organization demonstrates that it values and prioritize learning that will flow through the whole organization. But in terms of your question, you know, when that isn't the case, then I think it's up to you as an individual, to just make a decision to prioritize it. Anyway. You know, if even if your organization doesn't have a learning culture, there's nothing stopping you from still prioritizing it. And especially if you're in a leadership role, then it will encourage others to do the same. So this week, for example, you know, we had an invite only client development session and we invited Emma pinch who's a mindset coach, she's a researcher, uni lecturer, great human. She's a very busy person, about to start her PhD and, you know, she came and presented to our team and our clients on self leadership and self management. And, you know, as I did think, you know, for every client that came along to that session, they would have said to their teams, hey, we're going to this, you know, development session. And that speaks volumes to the team as because as the business owner or leader, that's a way that you're showing that you value development and also that personal leadership development. So I think even where people are in an organization, they feel they don't have a lot of opportunities, just make the opportunities like there's plenty of free stuff out there. And I know I get invited to a lot of free webinars and things like there's a way to make this happen if you prioritize it.

Lachy Gray  15:01

Absolutely. Yeah. I really like that. And in the perspective of personal development, how do you upskill yourself Karen?

Karen Kirton  15:10

Yeah, so how I gotta reveal something about myself. I am a big reader. And I read about 100 books per year. So yes, that's about two a week. Here's a fun fact. So this morning, I was thinking, Oh, how many books Am I reading these days? And I went into Goodreads and I discovered I'm in the top 100 Australian reviewers on Goodreads and I will start in the top 20 librarians, which are the people that actually update and edit the book listings on Goodread, so that's my fun fact and my reveal for today. So a lot of those books are fiction but there's still learning in that. And, for example, at the moment, one of the books that I'm reading so I read more than one at a time is I station by Matthew Reilly, which I never read before. And it's just it's aged so much just the way that we portray male and female characters in thrillers. So even just from that perspective, and though it's a fiction book, it's a very silly book, and I know it's very popular. But you know, I'm getting learning out of that. Strangely enough, just in terms of going back and going wow, yeah, that was pretty normal to describe women like that. You know, I also listen to podcasts, so it'd be kind of ironic if I didn't I guess. I read the newspaper every weekend. Yes, the physical paper. I don't like the computer telling me the articles I should be reading. I'm quite curious. So I should just like speaking to people and asking them open questions and, and learning from them. So I guess that's a bit of self learning. I do make sure that I and the team we know we all go to at least one conference or one big training every year. And I'm personally quite selective about what I go to because I want to get value for my time. So so for this year, you know, I went to the Small Business Conference in Melbourne. And it was great just to listen to all these you know, really amazing people talk about their businesses. You know, in the session, I have my laptop, I just took notes. And I was able to sit back at the end of the day and just reflect on you know, what were the themes that were talked about today and it was a two day conference on the second day and I went back again and said okay, you know, one of the top three themes which probably doesn't surprise you, you know, skills, shortages, cybersecurity and artificial intelligence. And so then I kind of went okay, what are the themes and what does that mean for our business in terms of how we can serve our clients, so, so I'm actually trying to make sure that when I'm doing something like that, I'm bringing it back to well, what changes do I need to make whether that's personally or for the business? And I also sent all my notes to the team and then we discussed it at our our team meeting afterwards as well. I think the other thing, maybe of interest to people and we did our strengths profile as a team and we decided that we wanted to develop more courage and adventure. So it may not surprise you that HR people don't stack so courage and adventure. So, you know, we're we're actively looking for ways to develop that as a team. So my colleague Robin and I are actually headed to Brisbane in August and we're gonna exhibit at this small business conference, something brand new to both of us we've never exhibited before we're very excited and the people that run it also give you training beforehand on how to be a good exhibitor. So I'm looking forward to that. How about you Lachy,

Lachy Gray  18:52

Huh? Interesting. I just want to ask you what, what happens at a small business conference? I've never been,

Karen Kirton  18:59

oh, it was like, I don't know you just you're with your people. Just so which is one of the things that I decided to go to it because I've been to others before which have been awesome. So one of the ones that I really like doing is worby because that's, you know, gives you that real sort of global perspective on what's happening with business and with leadership. You know, I've spoken before about the happiness and its causes conference. I think that's awesome in terms of you know, deposit in your emotional piggy bank. But I wanted something that was more around, you know, what's happening with our clients and with us. So, you know, we're a small business when we serve businesses of under 100 employees. So that's the reason why when I'd never been to this particular one before, and they had throughout the two days I had an exhibition on so I had lots of people, you know, showing their wares lots and lots of cybersecurity. But also, they just had continuing speakers every 15 minutes. There was a new speaker or a panel discussion. And it was actually quite amusing because at one point, I came out of the bathroom and I looked over and the person that was at the sink, I'd met her online, she's another small business owner, and we've been to networking online together. And so we both kind of had that moment of looking and going hang on, like I know you What are you doing here? Because we're both actually from Sydney. And then you know, I was talking to someone else on LinkedIn, who we're actually going to have as a guest on this podcast. And then I realized that she was one of the people on the stage in a panel discussion. So yeah, so I got quite a lot out of it just in terms of Yeah, what a small business owners doing what's important to them, but also just listening to people speaking about what they're doing. Yeah, I found really intriguing, actually.

Lachy Gray  20:53

Hmm, interesting. I did not know that you were in an elite club on raise. You've kept that very quiet. Very cool. Also read a lot of books I get a lot of grief work and from my wife reading so many books, not everyone likes to read, I've discovered appreciate that. Yeah, I learned a lot from reading. I like trying to take an idea or two and then trying it out, either personally, or at ya know. So if it's personally when I do my workouts at home I'll just pick up an exercise or routine that I write about, see what sticks. I always like trying and experimenting with stuff. I've done the same with nutrition as well, just always experimenting. At work. I'm always evolving, how we do our strategy based on what I read in here. They call this JD sessions that I run usually include an activity or an approach that I've read about or I've heard about. And then I asked the team for feedback. I like asking people what they're reading. I think it's an interesting one to hear, what interests them and their perspective on things. And I pick up the authors that I otherwise you know, that and I listen to podcasts too. And I think presenting the make it work podcasts of you that's been lucky to get the opportunity. It's been a lot to learn.

Karen Kirton  22:34

It's so true. Like feel embarrassed now that I didn't actually think. But it's true because as we're researching episodes, you know, we're diving into these topics as well.

Lachy Gray  22:47

Absolutely. Works for them an exec coach last year on my leadership skills, Linda Marie, who we've had on make it work a couple of times. And Mike and Mike, my business partner and I both worked with a he's actually a graduate of NIDA on our zoom sort of video presenting skills, especially at the start of COVID, that sudden shift and for me, it was not a medium that I was familiar with, comfortable with it's not more so recording to camera just said that lighting is no feedback, nothing. So working on that was really beneficial because little did I know that pretty much all my meetings now are on the computer. And I was on a snake you were on a panel at the new Ethernet conference here in Newcastle. So speaking on a stage in front of an audience, definitely out of my comfort zone. So I try and pick something to challenge me like that. Every now and then. And I also joined the board of a nonprofit Newcastle called first year. You met two and a half years ago to learn how to be part of a board. I didn't know what is the board do? What are the responsibilities of a board member? What's it like? To be on a board or a business or an organization that I'm not a leader in? Very different working with different personalities. So yeah, I like to be challenging myself, probably in all areas of my life all the time. I think which does tie my wife out. Says sometimes you just got to have fun. So that's the adventure strikes is relevant for me as well.

Karen Kirton  24:49

Oh, there you go. Now you can say to her well, I'm not as bad as Karen. I'm not on the top 100 reviewers on Goodreads. Yeah, I could be you could be that could be your new goal for next year.

Lachy Gray  25:03

Or you apply a growth mindset to it. So in terms of takeaways, I think from my perspective, I mean, you think about what you want to achieve if this is something that we're interested in that work, whether personally or the team, what do you want to achieve? And then I do think having some sort of schedule does help a lot. Even if it's just topics and then people can put themselves forward with those topics or suggest one and get it going and make it small and make it achievable. Yeah, 20 minutes, even if it's 30 minutes and I like your suggestion Karen of keeping yourself accountable. I think that's scheduled can help with that. Or if it's personally you letting someone know what you want to do by when does help a lot about you.

Karen Kirton  25:57

Yeah, I think you've shared lots of really great ideas of things that people can easily implement and I was just reflecting on what we've been discussing today. And I thought, you know, we we didn't actually talk about, oh, let's all go off to this major training program. And no, no, and I think that's the important point. Like I think there's value in those programs and I really enjoy going to them I run them but you know, I think there's so many other ways that that we can upskill intersect everyday moments. So yeah, and I really liked how you do that. 25 minutes that your weekly team meetings. I think that's a great idea. And I'm just thinking about, you know, who, who do I have in our client lists that currently doing lunch and learns that aren't working so well that I can suggest, you know, moving to that kind of process instead so, so thank you. I really enjoyed hearing your ideas today.

Lachy Gray  26:56

So, links to articles than anything else. We've discussed will be on our websites, you know, no.com Today, you amplify hr.com. Today, you just follow the link to the podcast section. If you've received value from this episode, we would love it if you can leave a rating or review over at Apple podcasts. And just a reminder we have a special offer for you our listener how you can upskill for free to find out more head to our link tree and that is link TR dot eight slash make it work podcast.

Karen Kirton  27:31

Yeah, and actually due to his scheduling conflict Amal Awad was to join us today, but that will now be coming up in the next episode. So Amal is a journalist, screenwriter, and author. And we're going to be chatting with her about why it's important to add creativity into upskilling or development programs in the workplace.

Lachy Gray  27:51

Yeah, looking forward to that. That episode. is coming up two weeks from now. So click the subscribe button to be notified when it's available. Any final thoughts, Karen?

Karen Kirton  28:01

I just I feel like I need to make a note for myself in 12 months to ask you how many books you've read because I think I've sparked to see it in you a competition wherever I'm challenged, yes, exactly.

Lachy Gray  28:16

Well, thanks so much for joining us. We'll see you next time on the Make It Work podcast.